Beyond ADHD: Finding Peace Amid the Noise w/ Sam Led

Mike: 00:00:00

You've landed at Spark Launch, the guide star for embracing what it means to be neurodiverse. I'm Mike Cornell, joined by CEO of Spark launch Chaya Mallavaram.

Here we navigate mental health triumphs and tribulations from all across the spectrum, charting a course through the shared experiences that unite us and discovering how to embody the unique strengths within neurodivergent and neurotypical alike, igniting your spark and launching it into a better tomorrow.

Mike: 00:00:28

Hello there, I'm Mike.

Chaya: 00:00:30

I'm Chaya.

Mike: 00:00:31

Today we have Sam Led, renowned coach, author of Beyond ADHD and the voice behind the podcast the Fearless.

Now, with a profound understanding of ADHD and neurodiversity, Sam often explores what is possible when we think, when we take our thinking less seriously and discover the innate wisdom beneath the daily ADHD noise.

With a background in studies from the University of South Florida and Nova Southeastern University and a graduate degree in conflict resolution, Sam is a powerful catalyst for clients looking to recover and flourish from major life setbacks or losses. Thank you for joining the show. This is a really big deal for us. Just thank you so much for wanting to come on and talk to us.

Sam Led: 00:01:17

Yeah, you know, anytime that I can be in a place where I can make people, not even make people, but point people back to what is true within their own experience and wisdom within them is I know I'm doing my job and when I share my story, I know I'm doing my job. It's not for egoic pursuits and this, you know, I make my bread and butter as a coach but I also, this is not a job for me.

Chaya: 00:01:44

So thank you so much for coming on the show. I was a guest on your show and now it's your turn.

And I have to say I love coaches because they, they've realized something from their own personal journey that they now want to help others from their own personal transformation. And so when you see someone saying they have figured out their adhd, well, we are all trying to right and live in our strengths.

I also want to point out to the fact that there was a time when it was really challenging. So I want to dig a little into that time where we able to share some of your experiences and also your transformation journey.

How you got on the other side.

Sam Led: 00:02:39

Yeah, that's a great question. And I grew up, I'm a Gen Xer dating myself.

I grew up going to school in the starting out for my elementary school education from the late 70s into the 80s and very early 90s and until I started college where where the way we dealt with or the way instructors, teachers dealt with behavior problems. And that's in context because what is the behavior. Behavior problem to one teacher is actually curiosity.

And how can I empower my, my student to, to participate in a class without disturbing it so much is, is by pun, with punitive measures.

You know, and, and in, in this country if you're, and I'm 50, so in this country if you are a Gen Xer, we were at the tail end of corporal punishment.

So, so it was actually legal in many jurisdictions in many places in this country that you could physically assault you could, you could hit your students. That's fact that.

So I, for me it was when I would be mind wandering in class where I would speak at a turn or I couldn't sit still and I'd have to, you know, and I wouldn't sit in my chair.

And then when the teacher, instructor, whomever was in the classroom, who was the adult would tell me otherwise, I'd, I'd like look at them and ignore them. And then there was consequences. Right. So either I would be sent to the principal or corporal punishment. That's, that's what happened.

classroom. As a little kid in: 1981

Now mind you, I have my graduate degree in conflict resolution. And sometimes it's I, you know, being caught up in my ADHD house of horrors, it's like conflict evolution that I'm mindlessly making up in my head.

So it was, it's interesting that I look at what my degree, my graduate degree is in.

But, but the greatest challenge growing up in my formal education years was the fact that I felt like I was speaking a different language to my teachers and they were speaking in different language to me.

It was like the Tower of Babel syndrome in the Bible where people, where it was like I was from a different country and everyone else was from the US And I was from Macedonia, wherever. And because I learned very differently, I understand, I understood how world works differently than the average pupil in the class.

And my way, my learning style was so different from everybody else's that it would piss off a lot of teachers.

And on top of that, because my learning style was different in the way I retain information, learn information and expressed what I learned in class, whether it was through an exam or not was different. And that became problematic because in some Areas I was really strong in school, like history and creative writing and the communication.

But when it came to math and physics and chemistry and all those other subjects I was so bad at, I would drive my teachers crazy because I would be asking the same question over and over again. And to me it was like, well, yeah, because they are not explaining themselves properly. And, and, and so that, that was my experience.

I don't look at my form of education as a challenge really. It's just what. What was happening at the time and just what.

What I needed to this to experience in order to learn more about myself and also about how I'm going to show up in the world as an adult, as a teenager, as a. As a kid. And there's really no journey to any of it.

It was more like, you know, it's like an immigrant that comes over from, from the old world to this country. There are certain challenges that they're going to experience and that's okay. Is it fun? Is it. Is. Do. Do immigrants suffer? Some. Sometimes, yeah.

Financially, socially. Otherwise adhders have an experience too. None of it bad.

And the reason why none of it's bad is because we've been conditioned to believe that suffering is something that we need to do everything possible to run away from. And one of my mentors, Citibank, said if the only thing in life we weren't afraid of was our experience, that alone would change the world.

And looking back at those years. Yeah. Did that. A lot of it was uncomfortable. Yeah. Did I feel misunderstood? Absolutely. Because I was very intuitive and very empathic as a little kid.

So add that to the, add that to the mixing bowl of public school education.

And I thought everybody was empathic and I thought everybody could feel the things that I could feel and see the things that I could see beyond what was in our present reality. And it was very, very overwhelming because I felt very alone in that. Now I did have friends.

I did have friends because I was a likable kid, because I was fun to be around and I was there for my friends and I could respond in crisis situations. And I was very understanding and patient with my friends. Did I drive them crazy? Yeah. Did they drive me crazy? Absolutely.

But it wasn't too adulthood that I saw like those unique gifts about empathy, compassion, patience, and understanding the human condition would be a benefit to my future career endeavors and also to my, my social relationships and my intimate relationships and my familial relationships.

So, you know, going back to my childhood years really, and talking about it really doesn't serve any listening right now any justice because we all have something. We all have a growing edge that we know is part of our experience that we either are working on or growing from, evolving from, etc.

So as a coach and as a healing practitioner, I'm trained as an acupuncturist and as someone who can see beyond what is in front of us in the third dimension, not to get woo, but in this time space reality, not to sound a woo woo.

It's been very helpful as someone, as a coach and I've been A coach for 17 and a half years, AD ADHD coach for many of those years, to be able to sit down, whether in the virtual couch, I call it, of a coaching session or one on one in, in, in the physical realm to help point my clients back to what is true and that it's just one problem when it comes to ADHD. 1.

And a lot of my clients, and just to, just to briefly because I want to move on with our conversation, but a lot of my clients have seen ADHD coaches before and the one similar response from every one of them was, was a waste of money because they tried to teach me techniques, tools, strategies.

And as an ADHDer for 50 years, for better or for worse, and having gone through therapy and worked with coaches before, they were called coaches, tutors.

The only thing that complicated my life and my, my daily experience more was it was a tutor or, or a coach trying to teach me a technique or a tool or a strategy for my adhd. Whether it was time management, bus stopping techniques, segmenting my, my homework or whatever it was, they don't work.

They never have worked, they never will work.

And even coaches that are very successful, ADHD coaches that do teach techniques and tools not to poo poo them, 90% of those, their clients within a couple months to a year are going to forget all those tools that they learned. Because you can't change what isn't true. You can't stop thought. ADHD is thought based. It always has been, it always will be.

We have neural machinery that is overseeing the thought and thinking system, but we do have free will to see beyond it.

And whether you have been suffering with ADHD all your life, you're newly diagnosed, or you're just confused, there's something that we have within all of us. Call it infinite wisdom, call it common sense, call it divine wisdom, call it big bigger mind that is really running the show.

So when my clients would tell me this as a traditional coach, I started to question all the tools and techniques and strategies that my mentors, before I got into sharing this understanding about how mind works in the inside out with my clients didn't make sense to me.

I got really curious about like I'm over complicating my clients thought thinking systems even more because we're just adding thought on top of thought top of thought. And then I had clients coming to me from other coaches, same problem.

They're so overwhelmed all the time because they have to begin this, this technique or tool when they're caught up or when they're overwhelmed or when they're distracted.

And, and you know, it was almost like you ever gone to a mechanic after seeing another mechanic with your car, they fixed the problem that the other mechanic created in the first place.

And again, I have only love for fellow coaches, but any coach that tries to help an ADHD with a tool or take, they're going to fall flat on their butt because we're over complicating the system very innocently. You can't teach an ADHD or fix something that's not broken. You got to let the ADHD be an ADHDer.

Chaya: 00:11:53

I completely agree. Allow an ADHDer to be an ADHDer because they are amazing. Having said that, the challenges are real and it's not about techniques.

It's that perfect formula that works for everyone. Everybody should be coaching the right way, like what you just described, Sam. And then there wouldn't be punishments. Right.

I just want to briefly touch on the punishment part because the punishments happen even today in different forms and you've met so many people through your coaching. I want to just talk about a little bit on what damage a punishment does to an individual, to an adult and what trauma they would experience.

And what have you seen?

Sam Led: 00:12:42

Yeah, great question. Well, in context with an ADHDer, you have to understand ADHD or neuromachinery is very, very sensitive.

It's almost like if you ever played on a, on a really tuned piano, like if you go, if you, if you have a friend or someone or you go to the Steinway store and you touch those keys and I play the piano. So that's the only metaphor I can use. It's finely tuned. Right.

What happens with, with especially with punishment when it's, when we're, when we're young and our brains are forming, it's kind of like we are throwing the piano, our own inner piano at a tune and then we're at. And then we're stuck at a tune because we didn't realize that we're our own piano tuner and we can bring, bring it back into.

And that's why coaching is so amazing because a lot of people are, are coming. A lot of adhders are coming to see us out of tune innocently. It's like getting your car aligned.

So, so for me, with the clients that I see is, is that a lot of adhders Fawn. Fawn. They fawn. They, they, they, they, they are.

You know, if they go to work or they, they're in school, they come home and they just hide from, from life.

They don't make connections with people because they're so used to the, the, the pushback and, or whatever stories, whatever tapes, old tapes from traumatic experience, the thinking they have in the moment is all being connected to traumatic event. We know what trauma is. We know it's an, an old neural tape that keeps hitting play in our, in our mind. And it's really unfortunate. It's really sad.

You know, you listen to like old people. Old people because I'm middle aged. But like you listen to our parents, right?

Older people, you know, you ask them about what was it like going to school or life was before we really understood how neuroanatomy and how mind works. And they'll say, you know, we wouldn't, we didn't get away with much and we were there.

Things had consequences, mistakes had consequences, you know, but we were, we were tough and we were resilient. Well, then throw neurodiverse people into that mixing bowl of people, right?

When you're dealing with all different kinds of pianos with different kinds of sound, you know, if you look at pianos or musical instruments, right, you know, you're not going to, you're not going to tune a Stein away exactly the same way you're going to tune a Baldwin piano or a Yamaha piano, right? The neurodiverse and nerd neurotypical people. It's, it's. We're.

We're speaking and communicating very differently when it comes to how we perceive the world, how we perceive ourselves and how others perceive us. In many respects, we both can be very successful in this world when we finally understand what our true calling is.

But when we are navigating early on in life as a young adult, right through either a career or through college or whatever it is, because neurodivergent folks, a lot of them have experienced traumatic experiences and abuse. Whether it's emotional or physical abuse, especially in academia or informal education.

Our way of coping and dealing with our outdoor experience is, can be in many times Detrimental to our well being. A lot of neurodiverse folks are turned to alcohol, drugs, unhealthy behaviors. Happens all the time.

I have clients, ADHD was in recovery from drugs and alcohol because they've been self medicating their trauma, they're drinking their trauma away and then they learn and then it becomes a condition pattern, you know, it becomes habituated and they don't know any better because it's, they're on automatic mode. And in ADHD years especially the ones that are, have experienced abuse or trauma are in automatic mode.

What I mean by automatic mode is that like, you know, all of us, we go through the motions of the day. Well, those motions of the day, are they engaging addiction? You know, addictive and or detrimental behaviors that are unhealthy.

Had a client the other day, came to see me in and out of rehab, brilliant guy, made a lot of money in his field. But he's killing his body with drugs, alcohol, chasing the dopamine. He's like, I don't know any better.

I don't know anything different from my experience. I was able to be. This guy was a screenwriter, he worked in Hollywood. I live in California, I see a lot of folks. He lives in Malibu.

I mean the guy's got everything. But he's unhealthy physically. He's killing himself. Because neurodivergent people, in order to cope, in order to, to. To deal with the noise.

When I say by the noise is old tapes. Neural noise trauma that keeps hitting play when, when there's a trigger, whether it's in relationships or social situations.

And that's what I say why I say adhder is fawn or will hide from life to whether that's not leaving their apartment and engaging in, you know, addictive behaviors, alcohol otherwise or just not interacting with the world outside of work. What I noticed with this client is he's like.

But I have glimpses of calm, wellbeing and groundedness in the space between when I am caught up in my, in the noise. And that's what I, you know, as a coach, that's why I point my clients back to. That's why I pointed.

I remind them of what is really true versus what is. When they're caught up in the ADHD house of horrors, in the dark haunted house of our thinking that we innocently get caught up in.

And so for traumatic, for trauma, it's really tough because it's like ADHD neurodivergent people, when they're caught up in the house of horrors the trauma, the reliving it in the moment when the neural tape hits play in our hard drive. Pretty freaking scary. It's pretty freaking. It's like you're in a virtual haunted house. Right.

But when, then I point out to my clients, especially this most recent client, you know, it's a day mirror. It's a day mirror. But we still, we still wake up in the morning and do our thing.

You can, you can still be in this moment and have a day mirror going on in your head. If you don't give it any, you pay no mind to it. It's not going to do anything to you until it doesn't. Yeah.

Chaya: 00:19:01

Mental health is so huge with neurodivergent folks because of their experiences. Right. Nobody talks about the experiences loud enough. And they don't just experience mental health out of the blue. Right. It's.

It's something that's deep from their childhood that they might not even remember how their. Or why they're experiencing that today. As you said, it's just an automatic response.

So if we don't really dig into that root cause and address it there and let them know that they were perfect just the way they were made with your beautiful ADHD mind and there was nothing wrong, it's not going to just go away. Right. Their problems. So. I love what you do, Sam.

Sam Led: 00:19:56

Yeah. No, I, I once had a client come to me who was acting psychotically. Was, was just screaming and yelling and carrying on during our call.

Um, and they were just overwhelmed with life and screaming and yelling and they weren't present at all. And I said, I'm just going to make up the name. Just keep clients anonymous. Tracy. Tracy, can I ask you a favor real quick?

And she, she, all of a sudden she stopped screaming. I said, can you do me a favor? You always wanted to be well and you always wanted to be healthy and you always wanted to have mental well being.

Can you just listen real quick?

And she got really quiet and she dropped out of the scary house with the ghouls and the goblins and the, and the vampires and all the scary stuff going in her head and all the things that's being made up in her head. And she got really present. You know what the definition of mental health is? And she's looked at me and she was quiet. She just dropped down.

There was no more screaming and yelling. I said, listening. Can't listen and think at the same time ever.

And when ADHDers start to realize, like when you quiet down and you start listening, you're Not. You don't have ADHD anymore. You're just present. It's that simple.

But we very innocently overcomplicate what is true and what is not true when we are caught up and when we are overwhelmed. And whatever's going on up here, it doesn't matter what it is.

And the one problem that Tracy saw and what I point my clients to and what they see is that it's one thought. We have a contracted thought or we have an expansive thought. Doesn't matter what the thought is.

You can even remember what the thought is at the end of whatever one thought. That's it. That simple. And then fill in the blanks. Is it a distracted thought? A reactive thought? Overwhelmed thought, rejection, thought, anxiety?

It doesn't matter what the thought is. It's one thought. That's it. That's it. And if you get curious about it, you're like, oh, yeah. And you just notice it. It doesn't bother you anymore.

You might have it in the background. Because once we notice that. That it's an illusion. It's a day mirror. We're in our house of horrors. There's nothing to fix.

There's nothing to figure out. You can be anxious and drive your car and get to your destination perfectly.

You can be distracted and still do a presentation in front of found your people. I've done that many times. You can have trauma in your mind's eye. You could have.

You can go back into the trauma and have, you know, a moment and still be with your son or daughter when they're having a hard time and problems and. And they need your attention. It's Memorex. It's a. It's an illusion. And no one's taken away from people's trauma. But it. It happened. But it's no more.

It's over. It's in the past.

Mike: 00:22:27

And.

Sam Led: 00:22:27

And the only thing that we need to see is that we're all one thought away from grounded presence, listening. And that's where. Because ADHDers always think they can't listen. I. I'm guilty of it. It's listening because, you know. You know, we. We.

We rely on our intellect for a lot of things that it was never designed to be used for. Ever. And listening is one of those things. Your intellect doesn't listen. Your intellect's a computer. It's like your laptop computer.

It doesn't know what it is to listen. Intellect wants to keep you safe and wants to keep you alive. That's it.

And then we have this ego that we've made up that's overseeing all of this, and they're like, oh, okay. So. So, like, there.

There is where a really good ADHD coach kind of starts to see, like, all my clients need to be pointed back to is what is true within them, which is calm, grounded presence. And. And everybody listening right now. Everybody, Everybody on this podcast episode. Mike too, if you're listening. I know you are. You're very focused.

And Jaya is that we always know what to do. Always know what to do when we're calm, president, grounded, even with the noise in our head. You ever driven with a teeny. I know. Shy.

You have a teenager, right?

Mike: 00:23:39

Right.

Sam Led: 00:23:39

No, a young adult.

Chaya: 00:23:40

He's 20. He's 20.

Sam Led: 00:23:41

Yeah. He's basically still a teenager. All right, Baby. He's still a baby. You ever driven? Does he drive?

Chaya: 00:23:48

He does.

Sam Led: 00:23:49

Okay. You ever do listen to his music Driving? Yes. Yeah, Right. We're. We're. We're in the same age group. We know what these kids are listening to.

And it boggles my mind how unbearable it is. Right. You. Well, that's a metaphor. Like, you still can be in. In your life experience with that kind of noise, you know?

Like, it's like driving with a teenager with his music blasting. Right. And it feels so chaotic and overwhelming, like, oh, my God, you still can make great decisions in life.

Your teenager is still driving with that loud music. Right. He's still making life and death decisions. He's not. He's still got his hands on the wheel, still driving in a split second.

He's not up in his head. He's grounded, present and centered.

Well, ADHD is because we hyper focus on everything that we do for better or for worse, when we're grounded, present, grounded, present and focused. Sky's the limit. Omnipotential all the way. And that's what I point my clients to. And that's what I think.

You know, we could focus on trauma and focus on what's wrong, but I think at the end of the day is you're going to find underneath that there's a pretty amazing, brilliant, creative, compassionate, empathic, superhuman underneath all that nonsense.

Mike: 00:25:01

An interesting thing you said earlier, that every struggle you may have has a purpose. Overall, there are struggles, but they also kind of make up ourselves. And it reminded me of a metaphor I use in, like, two different ways.

I've always been sort of obsessed with the Ship of Theseus metaphor. You start replacing parts on the ship, and by the end, it's just a bunch of new parts.

And I think the original wheel and that point is, it's a new ship or is it still the old ship?

I think about that when I think to everything I've ever dealt with in my life, going back to childhood, all the very dark thoughts I've had, all the dark times I've had. Yes. Do I wish I didn't go through all that? Sure. But at the same time, if I removed those, what am I?

Am I still the same person that I am sitting here right now speaking, and to that end, talking about kind of noisy brain. Definitely what I always call it, noisy brain. I kind of use the ship of Theseus metaphor there as well.

Whenever I get overwrought with thoughts, I call it kind of like the model ship, where I take all of those thoughts and I imagine them sort of objectively. There's a model ship on a table.

The ship is made up of all the noise in my brain right now, and I kind of go through it and look at each individual piece.

Because when you're building a model ship, you start with a piece and then you build out from there, and I kind of pick it apart and I look at where each connection is, and I try to get back to what that original piece that started the build was and let myself understand what brought all that noise on the first place. I think it's easy to get frustrated in those moments where everything is very overwhelming in your head and you're not grounded.

But as you said, most of that is coming from a place of wanting to keep you safe. I've said it before on this podcast, it's the blaring smoke alarm that's broken. You know, that's what it is. It's annoying.

But, hey, it's here to keep you alive one way or another. It just. It's a little on the fritz.

And sometimes it does help when you can identify, you know, what was the thing that started the snowball down the hill that brought you to, like, that overwhelm, and how can you get back to that and kind of work with that? That's how I've always approached it, mostly with anxious thoughts. I ruminate a lot, and I end up kind of.

I think anybody who ruminates very deeply can find. You lose hours, sometimes on one single thought. Sometimes it's not even the thought that began the rumination.

Other things start coming into play, you know, and what you're really worried about has gotten lost somewhere in all the noise, and you're not able to kind of productively address it.

Sam Led: 00:27:49

I love how you brought up ruminations, because I'VE had honorary doctorate in ruminative thoughts. There's no. Not from an accredited school. I'm joking, by the way. Well, you know, this is the thing. It's a. It's a very.

It's a very innocent misunderstanding of how we work as human beings because we have a feeling system, which is I. Which is. I call it our neural dashboard that's connected to thought and thinking. And when we are start. When we ruminate.

When we start to ruminate, our thinking gets sped up very innocently. It doesn't matter where it's coming from. And I guarant and I.

You know, I always tell my clients, I challenge you to remember whatever thoughts that came from or if you can remember it, because it's just like. It's like the earth's jet stream. It's just moving through us. But our. Our feeling system, our diagnostic.

I call it our diagnostic dashboard is alerting us to how useful or unuseful a thought is in the moment. Doesn't matter if it's an urgent thought or a grief thought or a hospital thought or a barracuda swimming next to a thought.

Now, the barracudas, for me, next to this thought or being in a pool, piranhas. Well, that's the gorgeous use of our mind's emergency alert system telling us. Sam, Mike, it's time to. Time to get out of the pool, right?

But it misfires. It's like in my Volkswagen for somebody. I've had nine Volkswagens. They've all had the same problem.

Besides, the first one, which was probably the center, was broken because it didn't. Every. Every Volkswagen has a squirk about their car. The fastened seatbelt sign illuminates even though there's no one sitting.

I'm sorry, the airbag light, not the fastened seatbelt. The airbag light illuminates, right? And it. And it chimes even though there's no one sitting in the seat next to you. Okay?

When someone sits in the seat, it turns turns off and it just keeps chiming and chiming and chiming. Or it'll do fasten seatbelt too, because it thinks it's. There's someone sitting next to him, which there isn't.

There's a little center in the seat and detect the same thing. When our. Our. Our. Our feeling. Our. Our thought and thinking system misfires, which is connected to a feeling.

And it's in the noticing of the emergency alert system misfiring very innocently because we have our neural hard drive that's alerting us and constantly informing us about the world and then throw in past memories and trauma and et cetera. So you know, it's not a high quality thought if it feels crappy and there's no danger around you.

Now there's nothing wrong with those ruminative thoughts. It's very human to have a ruminant thought, just like a grief thought or a scared thought or an anxious thought.

But then you see, oh, I'm using my intellect for what is, what was never meant to be used for. And that awareness alone, Mike, drops us out of it. It doesn't bother us anymore.

Do you know how many anxious and ruminative thoughts I had this morning? And I saw three clients before this call. I've been up since 4:30 in the morning.

But, but my point is, is like you have this awareness within you that's alerting you when the emergency alert system of your neuroanatomy is misfiring.

It's like I remember like recording mixtapes and when I was a kid, you know, and Kaya could, we're around the same age, she can, she can remember recording mixtapes. And when you'd replay the tape there would be some hiss from the.

Because it taped the quality where the recording was terrible and some background noise and static. We still listen to our favorite song over and over again from the radio that we would record from, from our favorite radio station.

the wound flutter with, with: 1970

And that for me was my, my eureka moment. That was my oh wow, there's something much bigger than my thinking out there moment. And that's where I point my clients to.

It's like, you know, there's something much bigger than our psychology that is running the show here.

Chaya: 00:31:45

For me, the way I deal with thoughts and from my own understanding we all have our own way of putting things together is that connection between emotions and thoughts at once. I made keys with emotions and converting everything into love and forgiveness. It was magical because the thoughts stopped coming.

And, and when I talk about love, it's love for yourself as well, right?

And self love is so important and self love is not just going to some spa or, or anything but just understanding you're perfect the way you are and not allowing a past comment by somebody else, letting that affect your emotions and still showing love for the other. Because we are all different. We are all Different. And everybody has a right to have their opinion, including myself.

But not letting that affect my own emotions has been my life journey.

And when you drop that expectation from others to understand you, to get you, and allow yourself to be understood by yourself, because you're just perfect.

Sam Led: 00:33:06

Yeah. Isn't it amazing? We're so brilliantly built. I love the word gorgeous, even though it's not a very masculine descriptor. We are gorgeously built.

One of my mentors said, you know, thoughts are kind of like, you know, we need thoughts to create nothing to something. You know, it's the.

It's a technology that we very innocently misuse because kind of like recording off of the radio when we were growing up with tapes, there's going to be a lot of static and we're going to have to constantly tune in the radio station to make sure that we can actually get a clear signal.

But when we realize that the static and all the noise and wow and flutter, this is just as normal as our wisdom and it's part of the human experience in our psychology. I can be with you right now in this moment with you and Mike, as my bird is screaming in the other room wanting my attention.

And that's a great metaphor for especially ADHDers, because we do have a noisy brain and we do ruminate a lot and we do obsess and over get overwhelmed, fill in the blanks.

But we also have many, many, many moments of divinity when we're calm, grounded and focused or hyper focused, where we see the technical or brilliance of our world in this moment, as we all share in this moment. Not to get all pithy or anything, but what I know is true.

What always has been true but always will be true is we are all one thought away from that space where we create the common sense space, the I just know what to do space. I just knew. Turn this computer on, plug it in, put my Logitech camera and hit the button. I didn't need to think about it.

I don't know the can opener works, but I didn't think about it. There's something driving us underneath our thinking that is getting us beautifully in the river of life.

Not to get all pithy, but yeah, it does help that we speak in metaphors because language doesn't do this experience any justice. And the ADHD understands that because he sees how we say he. The AD sees between the blinds. We're like looking in.

Like, we kind of see beyond what is in our 3D world. When we slow down to the speed of Life. And when I.

When I could not sit and listen to techniques and tools, not to poo poo any coaches, but for me and for my clients that come to see me, you know, after going to a. You know, it's like, again, the metaphor is going to a mechanic to fix the problems.

The, you know, what the mechanic didn't fix, to come to see to a new mechanic. When I kind of pointed them to, like, hey, you have free will to see underneath the noise or not. If you are disorganized, that's noise, too.

Remember when you were organized, maybe a couple days ago, when you just got things done, you didn't have to think about it. And if you don't want to get things done because you're procrastinating, well, that's made up, too. And we've made that up.

And conditioned myself to believe that that's true. And if it feels constricted when we contract in our thinking, you ask yourself, is it true, or am I just caught up right now? It's not true.

Because we know what's true when we are expansive, when we can just, like, bring it home. Like, if you ever watched, you're from. You live in Boston now, so have you ever watched. Yeah, you're in Massachusetts.

Like, one of the greatest baseball teams in the history of baseball, the Red Sox.

If you've ever watched the Red Sox game, those fans, no matter what, it's kind of like the New York jets if you're a Jets fan, like the Reds, if you're a Red Sox fan, you've been there through thick and thin. But 150 years of Reds, of.

Of the Red Sox playing ball, maybe a little bit less, 125 years of red Sox being around, they see the resilience with the within. The Red Sox, they. They'll go to a game and it's 20 degrees out. They'll go to a game with 120 degrees out, they don't care. It's like a Mets fan.

Like, same thing with us. We're built that way. Just. We have inner resilience running through us. In ADHD years, oh, my God, we're freaking. We're the ubermensch with Superman.

And I don't mean to toot our own horns, but I gotta tell you, at 50 years old, sharing this. This wisdom that, that.

That I see within me, that I'm passing on to my clients and to you, I gotta tell you, there's so much to see underneath the noise of our thinking. So much. I don't care how much debt you're in or how rich or poor you are, or how healthy or sick you are.

We all drop into that space of, of just knowing and common sense every day until we die. And then we. Then we're an all knowing we're dead.

Mike: 00:37:35

I always liken it if I'm, let's say, outside with a bunch of people, I kind of zone out of their conversation. Oh, a lot of group conversation doesn't.

If I'm not interested in what they're talking about, kind of like trail off and I'll tend to, you know, look around.

Suddenly I see a bird land somewhere off near a tree and starts poking around at the ground and maybe finds a worm, you know, maybe is like looking under leaves, maybe another bird joins it. And I find it beautiful that this little tearaway moment of existence, I'm probably. I'm the only one around right now who gets to see it happen.

And really the only reason I'm seeing it happen is because that's how my brain's wired. Other people would not be, you know, other people around me aren't noticing because their brain's not wired in that way. You know, they're.

I may be losing attention in some other way, but I'm gaining attention elsewhere. I've used this really nerdy analogy, I think, on this podcast before, but I bring it up because to me, like this is.

This describes a neurodivergent brain for me at least, and kind of the beauty underneath all of the struggles we may experience, which is Grant Morrison's All Star Superman. The ending of it, actually, which is a story about. I think I've explained it here before.

Superman's dying is pretty much setting up the world to carry on without him once he's gone. And midway through the story, he kind of creates a serum so Lois Lane can experience his powers along with him for a brief period.

At the very end of the story. He doesn't defeat Lex Luthor through physical means or anything like that. He actually injects him with the serum to give him the same powers he has.

And in doing so, Luthor sees the world the way Superman sees the world. He sees microscopic organisms. He sees atoms. He sees little neurons that join with us and then leave us. And he sees how everything is connected.

Living thing, inanimate objects, clouds in the sky, that they all are interconnected and everything's alive equally. And he's never seen the world like this before.

And it makes him both appreciative of it in a new way and also makes him feel wonderfully small amongst this ecosystem of life. And I really think that way when it comes to our brains, our neurodivergent brains, is yeah, there's other.

There are things I maybe miss out on, you know, there are things I have trouble with. Sure, that's completely true. I'm not going to take that away. I also get to see things other people don't get to see.

I get to experience the breadth of human existence in a way others don't.

I don't understand sometimes how other people don't feel the way that I feel towards others and feel even other people suffering in the same way or feel appreciative towards someone. Being passionate about something is hearing someone go off on a subject they like.

Even if it's something I have no real interest in, let's say, you know, if I'm like listening to a lecture or something and I just am so into that they're into it. And others, you know, don't seem to appreciate that the same way. But it's like, no, like that person.

I have a thing where I'm always amazed that like you can go to a Aztec temple or something like that and you can touch it and you can feel when you touch it. You're kind of touching history.

You're touching something that many, many years ago, craftsman built and put together and you're kind of connected through an object. Same thing. Even when you're. I walk down the sidewalk and there's cracks in the sidewalk.

If you think about it, once upon a time that sidewalk was new. It was being poured by people. And now over pressure and time of people walking on it, it's now begun to crack.

Which means every time you're walking on it, you're kind of attached to all the other people who have touched it in some way and the person sharing some sort of interests. I'm like a big film person. Like I can go off on film history and stuff at a moment's notice and.

Or hear somebody else talk about like, yeah, they were a collection of cells at one point and then came into existence and then had an upbringing. They found this particular, this particular maybe hobby or whatever else and now they're able to speak on it.

Like now it's like pure conscious thought in that. And I can appreciate that to me that's will always supersede any daily problem I might have. Because tho those problems are ultimately fleeting.

That's something that's a power that I will always have.

Sam Led: 00:42:14

Wow, Mike. I am you. But within on a different I don't know if you're in California, on a different coast, within a little bit of a different context, so.

Well said. I think I called pet. I love patina. That's why I love old cars. And that's why I've had old, old Mercedes and German cars.

I used to work on them here in California. We don't have rust like in the rust belt on East Coast.

And I just think about who else loved this car and took care of it and how many people really took care to keep this piece of beautiful machinery running.

And that is why I love coaching, because I want my clients to take care of their own machinery in a way where, you know, if you, if, if you, if you strip the gear or you, or you, you know, you not burn the clutch, but if you put the clutch into, let the clutch out too fast and time, sometimes you might stall out, you still can start the car again. I know that's a weird metaphor and, you know, it's interesting, Mike. Here on the west, are you, where are you? Are you on the East Coast?

Mike: 00:43:15

Yeah. Maryland.

Sam Led: 00:43:16

Okay. Here on the west coast, we do this thing called surfing. Although you could do east coast surfing too. Pretty freaking cold in the wintertime.

A lot of neurodivergent folks like us, like me, like you, we surf. Why?

Because you get to experience your, in your own experience the power and, and, and just daunting force of nature in a way that's so personal and, and you get to hyper focus on it when you're paddling out and you're, you know, not to get all, you know, I, I, I don't want to get all. What's his name? He was called a psychonaut. Terence McKenna. Ask on y'all. But, but there's something, it's art in a way.

Surfing is an art form in a way that as a neurodivergent person, you really appreciate being in the moment with the ocean and the wave that chooses you, because you don't choose the wave that chooses you. Because you have no choice. You're in it.

You're in the soup or in any artistic endeavor or even being at work and appreciating that moment when you're behind your desk and you're going to create something at your desk, whether it's, whether you're working with clients, whatever you do for, for to make a living.

And when we break it down that way, and as neurodivergent people, especially ADHD years, we can hyperfocus on stuff so beautifully, and that's helpful. For coaching, it's helpful for writing. That's helpful for any passion that an adhder has or any neurodivergent person has.

Because when we are passionate about something, there's nothing stopping us. Stuart Copeland, the drummer for the Police, he has ADHD and he's got a whole bunch of other things, you know, the very noisy brain.

And he was talking about that, he's like, you know why I've been stuck around for 48 years as a drummer?

You know, well, first with the Police and I'm doing my own thing now, is because I hyper focused on it and I saw the artistry and the beauty in it and the collaboration between me being a drummer and Sting being a singer and a bass player, you know, and, and, and so there, there's really nothing stopping a neurodivergent person from their passion when they see underneath the noise, when they see the noise is just a gentle reminder. Thought, thinking, system, connected, feeling, alerting us to the fact that we're glitching temporarily and we need to pivot to presence, hard stop.

And that we have this ability to experience and feel all kinds of stuff that's pretty damn cool. And, and the one thing that my clients see, you know, I do, when I work with my clients is they stop being afraid of suffering.

They stop being afraid of their experience. They stop being afraid of feeling crappy or overwhelmed or reactive or angry or anxious. Again, fill in the blank. That alone, that pivot alone.

Holy cow, that's. That changed my life. Nothing changed about my brain. What I got.

k Floyd for the first time in: 1994

It's like, oh my God, there's something so much bigger than, than, than my momentary hissy fit or overwhelm. I'm going to have it. It's going to happen again. Happened this morning in my head.

You don't want to, you don't want to see me before taking my medication or drink my coffee. But, but you know, people are like, sam, how do you drink coffee and take Ritalin at the same time?

I'm like, because it, it actually slows me down, buddy. You know, so, so it's, it's so cool, Mike, what, what you're seeing and Chaya, what you're seeing is so cool.

And as coaches and as people that really love people, I love people. I Mean, sometimes they drive me crazy. More like I drive myself crazy.

But you know, there's so much amazing stuff in this world that we can share with our clients and there's so much we can do for ourselves in this moment to not be scared of all the manifestations of a neurodivergent mind. I'm not saying we're easy people. We're not. Yeah.

Chaya: 00:47:22

I just want to express one thought before we end is. Even though I'm not a surfer, I always use the term learn to ride the wave.

Because once we learn to ride the wave of emotions, it's just magical because it's going to go on. Right. And the fear, you were just talking about the fear, which is what will kind of stop us.

But once we realize it's fine, it's fine to go and address it because when you actually are dealing with it, it's not that bad. And so you, when you ride that wave of that hard turn. I'm not using surfing terms, but you get it, it's just, it'll settle down.

Sam Led: 00:48:10

Right.

Chaya: 00:48:10

So we have to keep going, going and welcome those experiences because. Yeah, it'll teach us and we'll learn so much through those.

Sam Led: 00:48:20

Yeah, I, I, you just reminded me of something I wanted to share. Thank you, Ty. Because it's not the experience. Fill in the blank. Like remember the game, Was it ad lib?

Remember the game, we were kids, where you would have to describe a situation and then you, or no, it was stories. You create your own stories. So it'd be like Steve blank this, this, this, and J and Mary did that again. Ad the game.

Ad lib is, is, is the fact that we're having an experience in this moment. A thought, thinking, feeling experience. Right.

And the, we're ad libbing it by living in the experience of our judgments, our criticisms, our beliefs that innocently contaminates our felt experience, our thinking experience, our, our, our visual experience outside of us. And that's. But once you see that we're living in the judgment of our thinking and that you can't not think.

I mean, you can live in a moment of less thought where thinking slows down, but living in an experience of no thought doesn't exist. Now you can live in an experience of no thought with thought in the background and psychology in the background. That's why people meditate, right?

That's why people. But you don't need to meditate to have to live in a walking meditation.

You still can have ADHD or fill in the blank, whatever you want to or Anxiety or depression or anything and still have a great cup of tea or a great client call with your client. You know, you talk. Some of the greatest writers wrote some of their greatest stuff. Depressed, anxious, suicidal, sold a million books.

We still can live a successful life in fear, anxiety, overwhelm, adhd, you know, me, whatever. You still can be with the moment and still have all this noise in the background, like making that mixtape with all the.

With all the static and noise on the tape. You still can enjoy the music and that. For an ADHD to really see that.

Because what is an ADHD or experience growing up and through their younger years? Pushback criticism, Right? I'm a problem. Everyone says I'm a problem. I must be a problem to my teachers, to society. So we create all this.

All this negative gobbledygook about how we see ourselves in the world and we think that's truth. It's so crazy and it's innocent because it feels a certain way, right?

But once we see beyond that, we still can be very successful in this life with a lot of noise. And that's what I point my clients to. And that's what I point on my clients to know. Look, I don't see any of my clients as broken, dysfunctional.

I don't care if they've been arrested. I don't care if they've been, you know, if. I mean, when declared bankruptcy, I don't care.

Whatever's happened in their life, I know they're all just one thought away from clear, grounded presence. We're all. We're all one moment away from free and clear. Because if that wasn't the case, then I would have.

I'm away from the beach early this morning, driving back to my house. I would have gone to a car accident, died, God, God forbid, because I wouldn't be. I'd be thinking and not present.

You can't drive and think at the same time. Chai, as an artist, because you're a brilliant artist, you can't paint or draw and think at the same time.

It's impossible because you would never do anything. You'd be like, okay, so this crown, look, this. This coin at this angle, turns it this way, you know, like.

Chaya: 00:51:48

Yeah, It's. Once you learn to tap into your instinct and just work through your instinct.

I'm surprised at the end result as anybody else, because something magical has entered me and made me do all these things.

Sam Led: 00:52:05

That. That again. Say that again. Something magical. No, it's. It's your wisdom.

Chaya: 00:52:11

That's my inner wisdom.

Sam Led: 00:52:12

That's your inner divinity. That's, that's, you know, some. Some people call Christ consciousness. Some people call it inner wisdom. Like, we don't know who.

Like I always say to my clients, you know, I'm your Uber, you know, let me be your peace of mind Uber driver, because you're going to tell me where to go. I'm going to point you to peace of mind. I don't care what your past looked like.

I don't care how scared you are of your future or how scared you are right now in the present moment. We're going to find a freeway that has less traffic on it.

Chaya: 00:52:39

Yeah. Your mind slows you down because it can only go.

Mike: 00:52:45

It's.

Chaya: 00:52:46

It's lightning speed.

Sam Led: 00:52:48

Yeah.

Chaya: 00:52:48

It is our inner self, which is so wise. It knows what to do. It knows not to do. It knows who to trust, who not to trust. Just allow and drop into that space.

Mike: 00:52:58

Just the glory of consciousness, conscious thought. Like you said, you can change anything with one thought, what it takes.

And the Uber driver analogy is something that I've used a lot, and I actually first heard it when I was going through peer support training, actually. And it's true.

I mean, that's, that's why, going back to what you're saying about, you know, just teaching coping skills or whatever, you provide them, sure, you can provide things, but it's all. That's also a bit akin to if I got into an Uber and then I said where I wanted to go and they decided to take me somewhere else.

It's not really how that works.

You know, you go where the person wants you to take them, and maybe you'll know some other pathways to get there, but you have to always allow the person to go where they want to go.

Especially when you're dealing, I think, with ADHDers and neurodiverse people who have so often had their agency very much robbed from them by other people who've told them what they're capable of, what they're not capable of, what they should be doing, always with the shoulds, and allow them to find their way to that peace of mind that they've been wanting to on their own. Because we all kind of have that ability in us. We just maybe need a little bit of help uncovering it sometimes.

Sam Led: 00:54:12

Well said, Mike. You know, as. As a coach, I point people, I just remind people what they already know. You know, I'll ask a client. So tell me what it.

Tell me what it feels like just to feel calm. Tell me what it feels like to. To Feel confident, tell me, tell me what it, you know, give me example. When you felt grounded.

And then they'll tell me, I said, okay, do that, do that more. That's it. Because they've had those moments of confidence, of clarity, of knowing what to do next, of, of, of feeling just present in the moment.

Like, that's all, that's all that's on offer. That's, that's always been on offer for all of us is that we just forget.

And then because we're up in our ADHD house of horrors, we're up in our Netflix movie that we think is real. And then we drop out again and we go back up. We all do it. We all go up, up and down levels of consciousness. Whether you have ADHD or not.

We all, every human being walking on this planet goes up and down levels of consciousness. We go up in our head, in our intellect that we think is the truth, which is 100% not. You know, it's kind of like you can Google anything.

Our laptop computer, when we go up here into our head is like Googling something. Google's great. It's a. Knowledge is great, but is. It doesn't teach you life.

I mean, you can Google a lot of things, but it doesn't teach you compassion, doesn't teach you how to interact with people, doesn't teach you how to do life.

I mean, yeah, you can probably Google how to build a house and get all the materials for it, but it, but, but we know through common sense and inner wisdom really how to build the house. We have this built in, kind of, I would call it the kitchen.

You know, like if you love cheeseburgers, have this built in kitchen that knows how to make a cheeseburger. Right? Yeah, There are different recipes, but ultimately you can just make a cheeseburger.

Like, you don't need to rely on anything else but your, your own inner wisdom. Obviously there's certain things you need to know, but at the end of the day, we have this kitchen that knows how to create really yummy stuff.

And that's a, you know, a metaphor for what is possible when we start trusting what is true in this moment.

And that's what gets clients, like really shakes them out of their intellect and out of their heads, is what's true in this moment, what can be true in this moment, and what can't be true in this moment. Yeah, but no, that's made up. All of it. The. Yeah, but it's all made up. Doesn't matter how anxious, overwhelmed you feel.

And once Clients begin to see that the. Yeah, buts.

The story that the Netflix movie that they're making up, the commentary, the judgments, the criticisms about their life, whatever's going around and their behaviors, whatever they see that they're innocently making that up, they can begin to stop focusing on the negative stuff, the behaviors, the judgments, the criticisms, the anxiety, all that stuff. Because what do ADHDers do? Well, our superpower, many superpowers. One of them is hyperfocus.

So it's very, very easy for an ADHDer to hyper focus on rumination, just as easy it is as the hyper focus on surfing or making money.

And when, when, when the clients kind of sees, like they have free will to choose either making money, surfing or, or, or focusing, hyper focusing on rumination, it. It kind of all makes sense. And I think that's what is inherently within us to see.

Like we have this technology called thought that we sometimes use for a greater purpose, and other times we use it against ourselves very innocently. We all misuse it sometimes, right? I mean, it's like, have you ever gotten a speeding ticket? Oh, yes, parking ticket. One or two in my day.

I mean, life's a contact sport, you know, It's. It's. It's not life. It's the judgment about life that gets us in trouble all the time. Our judgments.

And we, Once we see that we're not living in the outside world, we're living in the experience of our judgments, our criticisms, and our thinking. We stop doing that so much. We just stop doing it that much. And then sometimes we go back up there and we start doing it again.

And then, oh, hey, I'm up here. No, no, no, I'm sorry. I didn't mean that. But we have free will at the end of the day.

Mike: 00:58:27

Yeah. And it's hard to remember sometimes. Most of the world is telling you the exact opposite.

Sam Led: 00:58:32

That's it. We're not living in the outside world. We're not living in the, in the external world. We're living in the experience of our inner world.

It's not outside in. It's inside out. And sometimes we forget. And we all forget.

I don't care if you know who you are, how wealthy or how, who you are or how old or sick or young or whatever. It doesn't matter. We all do it. But we need the contrast. We need that contrast to see what is true. And what did I always say? What is Memorex?

Chaya knows what Memorex is. What is record or recording made? What is made up. And what is true.

So if we didn't have the wow and flutter and the neurostatic and the anxiety and overwhelm and ruminant thoughts, and we didn't have that, we wouldn't know what is true, what is true, what is not true. Like, you need that contrast, because absent of that would be, you know, that's the afterlife.

Sorry to get all morbid, but, like, that's what happens when we experience total consciousness. Let's try you. Yeah. I mean.

Chaya: 00:59:32

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Sam Led: 00:59:33

We don't want that. We don't want total consciousness. That'd be like one bone big DMT trip. We don't want that. We want contrast. We want. I know.

Chaya: 00:59:43

I love contrast.

Sam Led: 00:59:46

I need to have my growing edge. Yes. Isn't that weird? We need that.

Chaya: 00:59:52

We need contrast in everything. As an artist, I know if it was all plain white, it would be a blank canvas. And so you need that dark and the lightness to make it beautiful.

Sam Led: 01:00:03

Yeah.

Chaya: 01:00:03

In everything. And even in politics, in people's opinions, we need that difference. Right. And once you respect people's differences.

Sam Led: 01:00:15

Yeah.

Chaya: 01:00:15

And just allow us to be us and not judge ourselves or others, it's going to be beautiful. If we all practice that.

Sam Led: 01:00:24

Yeah. If you didn't have contrast chai, you wouldn't be painting all that gorgeous stuff that you paint. And, you know, I mean, like.

Yeah, and I'd be out of business. And so it's like, you know what? My, my Uncle Kenny may rest in peace.

He, I, I said, you know, he said he was a dermatologist, and, and he said, you know, there wasn't cancer. He's like, he's like, do you, do you tell your patients, you know, about the dangers of skin cancer?

You know, and he's like, no, because it's not good for business. He's like, I tell them we're sunblock, they don't listen anyway, so it doesn't really matter. But my point is, it's like you need the contrast.

Like, you need to know, like, what, what, what dark looks like, what that experience is like, or what suffering feels like or anxiety feels like. You have to have that because without that, you wouldn't know what it's like to be alive for real.

Chaya: 01:01:17

Yeah. You're not meant to be happy all the time, I think. Exactly.

And I think the world is trying to sell happiness, and if we stop trying to be happy, we'll actually be happy.

Sam Led: 01:01:31

Yeah. And that's, and that's the thing about, about our machinery.

And this is where ADHD need to be careful with dopamine because we do have neurochemicals that, that and that they can get us in trouble. And you know, we do have our own neural network up here in our own machinery.

And where we can get in trouble is relying too much on our medication and psychopharmacology to get us through life. That can be. And that's a slippery slope. And that's not my expertise.

I don't, and I can't give advice, I don't give advice on that because I'm not a medical professional. But speaking from my own experience, and this is, I think a good place to kind of ponder for next conversation, for another conversation, right.

Another episode is when we rely on our medication, which in the past I've been guilty of for that happiness, for that groundedness, for that sense of calm, because it does help us slow down. My Ritalin helps to slow me down. Coffee helps slow me down. It's a slippery slope because I've also gone months and years without it.

But just like hyper focusing on anything in our experience in our, in our life, we can sometimes get too hyper focused on that medication to get us through the day. And that's where we run into real problems with addiction and with dependency on psychostimulants like Ritalin and Serta, Adderall, et cetera.

and a half years since: 2000

But I don't plan on staying on it forever. There will be a day when I'm going to decide, right.

You know, when I have that wisdom, when I know it's the right day to go off it completely because I don't need it to, to have a successful day.

Mike: 01:03:19

I don't tools in the toolbox like anything else, right?

Sam Led: 01:03:21

It's. Yeah, it's like a software. And I always look at it, it's like an app on your phone.

Eventually that app's going to become obsolete or you may not use it much anymore. Right. I always say that medication is like a software update, right? It, it's, it's training wheels.

You, you know, and everyone, everyone's brain is different. And that's where we also get it as an adhder, we also have some issue with. Is it because every brain is very different, sensitivity wise.

Remember I talked about like the piano and the, and how every, every brain is Tuned differently, sensitivity wise, cognitively we could say, yeah, we have the same parts. But again, if you listen to a Steinway computer Steinway piano, it's very different from a Yamaha. The sound is very different. Same thing with brains.

So that's where we also have long standing issues as ADHDers.

Mike: 01:04:10

Is.

Sam Led: 01:04:10

Is.

Is the medication part that I would love to touch upon speaking from my experience as an ADHDer, not speaking from a clinical perspective because again, I don't want to give advice. I can only speak from my experience. But I think that'd be a great topic to talk about.

Chaya: 01:04:23

We would love that. We would love to have you and talk about different things because this is never ending conversation.

Your words are generating a lot of thoughts in my head.

Sam Led: 01:04:35

So hopefully, hopefully good thoughts. Bad doesn't matter. You know, that's okay. We need a bad for the good. Right?

Mike: 01:04:44

Yeah. Balancing. Yeah. We would definitely love to have you back on and just keep this going. This has been probably my favorite episode by far. Mile.

Sam Led: 01:04:52

But I'll tell you after the conversation because he said of course like Emma else better.

Mike: 01:04:59

Yeah, that is true. But yeah. Thank you for. Thank you for coming on. Thank you for talking with us and sharing your insights. This has been just absolutely wonderful.

I've gotten a lot out of this. I know Chaya has as well. So where can everybody find you? You know, pick up your book.

Sam Led: 01:05:15

Yes. Thank you. Yeah. And you know I always say a good podcast episodes when we all go somewhere. We don't even know where we went but it was somewhere.

We pushed the needle somewhere in a positive direction. So that's good. Yes. So. So you can reach me Instagram Sam Bled 11 11.

I have my website samledconsulting.com I'm on this thing called Bluesky which is Sam led and then LinkedIn. Sam led. I do one on one coaching.

We just finished a workshop doing a workshop on thriving with ADHD during the holidays which was a lot of fun with a colleague of mine do workshops, group programs. I have my podcast Fearless now on Amazon and Apple. Not Amazon, Google. Is it Google? No, Spotify. Sorry. Spotify and Apple.

It's been a long day and yeah, I'd love to be of service to anyone that wants to work together. I love adhd. Steers are my favorite people.

Mike: 01:06:06

Ours too. I'll be sure to include all of those in the show.

Notes of course for everyone to find and spark launch of course can be found at sparklaunchpodcast.com - if you would also like just a handy, easy to find list of all the places you can subscribe to us: sparklaunchpodcast.com/listen. As for Sam, for Chaya, and for myself, we will see you next time.