The Macho Myth: Dismantling Toxic Masculinity
Toxic masculinity, a pervasive and damaging set of behaviors and expectations associated with traditional masculinity, negatively impacts both men and society as a whole. In this episode, Mike and Chaya explore and expose the complexities of this poisonous patriarchy, the theory of "the man box," and the ways rigid social definitions of masculine contributed to Mike's development of an eating disorder.
We Also Cover:
- Emotional Suppression
- Emphasizing Emotional Intelligence and Empathy As Basic Human Conditions
- How Societal Expectations Restrict Emotional Regulation
- The Historically Arbitrary Nature of Masculinity and Femininity
- The Ways Neurodivergent Can Be Susceptible To Toxic Peer Pressures
- Media Influence
- Abuse Cycles
Quotes:
- “Toxic masculinity is not just the wanting and need for respect, but feeling that you are owed respect—whether or not it's earned—and that creates a lot of anger.”
- "One of the top ways to battle toxic masculinity is not just changing media and culture, but teaching that thinking deeply about the world and themselves is normal."
- "I think back to previous generations where you would see depictions of fathers who'd come home and not really have anything to do with the family because that wasn't their function. That was the only way of doing things they knew."
- "And there's also an isolating nature to toxic masculinity. Any friendship you may have with another man, you cannot be that 'close' to them because then the homophobia comes in, or you're being weak because you're leaning on a friend."
As always, thanks for lending us your ears and keep igniting that spark!
Stay Connected:
- Website: https://sparklaunchpodcast.com/
- ADHD Coaching & Workshops: https://www.sparklaunch.org/
- Chaya on Instagram
- Mike on Instagram
- Want To Be a Guest? https://sparklaunchpodcast.com/booking
Related Reading:
- The Man They Wanted Me to Be: Toxic Masculinity and a Crisis of Our Own Making - Jared Yates Sexton
- How The Man Box Poisons Our Sons
- The History of "The Man Box"
- The Impact of Toxic Masculinity On Men's Mental Health
- How to Fight Toxic Masculinity | Scientific American
- Toxic Masculinity as a Barrier to Mental Health Treatment in Prisons
Transcript
You've landed at Spark Launch, the guide star for embracing what it means to be neurodiverse.
Speaker:I'm Mike Cornell, joined by CEO of Spark Launch, Chaya Mallavaram.
Speaker:Here, we navigate mental health triumphs and tribulations from all across the spectrum, charting a course of the shared experiences that unite us, and discovering how to embody the unique strengths within neurodivergent and neurotypical alike, igniting your spark, and launching it into a better tomorrow.
Speaker:Hello, everyone.
Speaker:I'm Mike.
Speaker:I'm Chaya.
Speaker:And welcome to Spark Launch.
Speaker:In this episode, we want to discuss I guess, it's, for some people, it's a bit of a touchy topic.
Speaker:It's something that has been in the zeitgeist a lot harder probably in the last 15 or so years.
Speaker:The term has gained a lot of popularity, I would say, in the in the late 20 tens for copious amounts of reasons, and that is toxic masculinity, which is a nebulous term in some in some cases.
Speaker:I don't think a lot of people quite understand what it all encompasses, and it encompasses quite a bit, and the levels of which toxic masculinity is damaging both societally, also personally for people.
Speaker:I mean, of course, there's victims of toxic masculinity.
Speaker:People have been hurt by domestic abuse, or there's copious amounts of violence waged because of that toxic masculinity, and you only need to look at history to see wars created due to toxic masculinity.
Speaker:It's something that has permeated the culture of humanity in various ways, and, of course, there's various forms of toxic humanity.
Speaker:But masculinity is something that's particularly potent as poison, I would say, something that stems a lot from a concept that in of itself is nebulous, which is masculinity.
Speaker:And I think a lot of masculinity comes down to, like, a need for respect, which there's nothing toxic about wanting and requiring respect.
Speaker:We all want that.
Speaker:I think toxic masculinity, at least one of, like, the prevailing places it comes from is it is not just the wanting and need for respect, but feeling that you are required to give be given respect.
Speaker:You are owed respect whether or not that respect is in turn earned, and that creates a lot of a lot of anger.
Speaker:And I find toxic masculinity to also be a generation spanning cycle of abuse that is perpetuated that goes from not just generations of family, but just generations of men in general, and the concept of masculinity becoming something more than, you know, being almost a religion in of itself.
Speaker:But, Chai, I wanna get your perspective and your thoughts on, like, what you find toxic masculinity to be.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Just, just listening to that term makes me think you're already segregating.
Speaker:You're putting this masculinity, the toxic masculinity, separate from something a woman, a female would experience.
Speaker:So just that fact makes me think that somehow the society has differentiated this.
Speaker:And just personally, from my vision, it's always these differences that cause a lot of turmoil in this world.
Speaker:So somehow, we have separated these individuals and put them in a box, and they are expected to behave a certain way because they're men.
Speaker:And because they're not behaving a certain way and they are being toxic, than shamed.
Speaker:So just that segregation of behavior, I don't feel good about that because men are supposed to behave a certain way.
Speaker:Women are supposed to behave a certain way, and this is bad.
Speaker:This is good.
Speaker:Who's who made those rules?
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:It comes back to the societal rules and expectations that I know is a result of a lot of problems in this world today because we're supposed to do these things.
Speaker:And so, yeah, from what I know, toxic masculinity is anger, aggression, display of negative emotions towards either themselves or others, which is not accepted.
Speaker:Of course, it's not accepted because we don't want to be on the receiving end of any of that aggression.
Speaker:But it's me being advocate for inner peace.
Speaker:I love this topic, and I can't wait to dig deeper into this, especially here with neurodivergent community because there's so many traits with neurodivergent people that may contribute to this.
Speaker:Not saying there's nothing anything wrong with them, but it's just the societal rules and expectations of men having to behave a certain way and not being able to express their emotions, for instance, and just to man up or not cry like a girl.
Speaker:Comments like that.
Speaker:I can imagine I can only imagine what it can do to a child or to a grown adult.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Softness is looked down upon.
Speaker:Whatever softness is, it's a lack of empathy.
Speaker:Empathy is seen as weakness.
Speaker:And as you said, it's the comparison to feminine is less and don't act feminine, you know, is essentially what it comes down to.
Speaker:And feminine isn't necessarily what is perceived as stereotypical female traits.
Speaker:Arguably, intellectualism is purely a humanity, but in the eyes of masculinity, it is seen as feminine.
Speaker:If you are intellectual, if you read books, you know, don't be a, you know, we say man up.
Speaker:We say don't be a sissy.
Speaker:You know, thing you know, just completely ignorant things like that, and it's not just anger.
Speaker:It's where so much bigotry and prejudice and hatred stems from because it's that that creation of an inner circle.
Speaker:You know, the that's where the term locker room talk comes from.
Speaker:You know, this private placement can do be can go to be men, quote, unquote, and, you know, be ignorant and hateful.
Speaker:And I do feel that in a lot of ways, neurodivergents are susceptible to falling into that because of the phenomenon of mirroring or not finding your place in the in the world.
Speaker:And the neurodivergents aren't traditionally, you know, the masculine type that's toxic masculinity bandy is about.
Speaker:And it's a masculinity that doesn't exist.
Speaker:I I wanna make that very clear.
Speaker:Like, all these things these people are chasing aren't possible.
Speaker:You know, they're not real.
Speaker:It's like chasing a high or something.
Speaker:But when you're trying to fit in and you just want to feel, quote, unquote, normal, it's you're being told, like, no.
Speaker:This is the way to do things.
Speaker:And when you're told this is the way to do things, well, that's the line you're probably gonna fall into.
Speaker:It's there is a term called the man box.
Speaker:I believe it was coined by Tony Porter by way of forget whose book, Paul Kibble.
Speaker:And the reason it's called the man box is because it's masculinity and particularly specifically, toxic masculinity is this rigid rule based contraption that you're supposed to stuff yourself in.
Speaker:And as you're contorting to fit yourself into it, your bones are snapping, and it's painful, and but you're in the box.
Speaker:You've got in the box, and you have to stay in the box.
Speaker:You're bullied if you try to leave the box, and that's where the detriment to, I would say, mental health for men and boys, but also there's been studies conducted of the effects on physical health.
Speaker:This is where, you know, not over drinking, smoking.
Speaker:Men, you know, each copious amounts of red meats and, you know, things like that, and that will harm them.
Speaker:Where unprotected sex tends to come from is a place of toxic masculinity.
Speaker:What, you know, you the use of protection is seen as weak in some way.
Speaker:You know, it's the it is this kind of enforcement that's that creates this perfect storm that pain is going to be caused in some way, either inner or outer or what is most likely to occur, which is just both, and people who then don't discuss their pain, and then their pain has to be inflicted usually on someone else in some way.
Speaker:And there's also an isolating nature to toxic masculinity because any friendship you may have with another man, you cannot be that quote, unquote, close to them because then the homophobia comes in, or you're being weak because you're leaning on a friend or any number of things, and, you know, that extends to therapy and talking to somebody or just looking for empathy, let alone giving empathy.
Speaker:That's why I say it's the generation spanning cycle of abuse because it's just society as our own fathers, as our own grandfathers, just the whole of society that is like pushing this, that tells men not to that you have to be shown aggression.
Speaker:You have to you are owed power, and you must show power.
Speaker:And that is a that is something built into the construction of specific like, particularly, like, speaking of America or something, you know, we see things now with the presidential election that's happening, and, you know, who is running, and you see that placements of toxic masculinity, and you and you see it in these crowds of people.
Speaker:And that is like this very narrow, rigid place, and it's and it's never really recognized as such.
Speaker:And when it is recognized, it's it is seen as a war on masculinity, and you see that in a lot of, like, transphobia as well.
Speaker:But you see the denouncing of toxic masculinity is well, you're denouncing man's identity because for people who have kind of succumb to this, it's it is a feeling of it gives them power.
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:It gives them strength and self agency in some way that at least they believe that.
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:It's creating, like, a herd mentality, and you're all fighting for alpha of the pack.
Speaker:I'm reminded of one of my favorite movies is Fight Club based on the Chuck Palahniuk novel.
Speaker:That is a movie that has been it reminds me a little bit of Catcher in the Rye.
Speaker:Like, it's our generation's Catcher in the Rye.
Speaker:And the point of Catcher in the Rye is you read it when you're a kid and you're like, yeah.
Speaker:This, you know, this character and then you read it again as adults, and you go like, oh, this guy's an asshole.
Speaker:Like, that was you ended up being taught a lesson by reading it in 2 different stages of your life.
Speaker:And Fight Club kind of works a lot of the same way, and people think it's, oh, this is giving me permission to be the thing that I wanna be, the toxically masculine.
Speaker:And, you know, everything Tyler Durden says is gospel.
Speaker:And the point of the story is that is actually denouncing the idea of toxic masculinity.
Speaker:Everything Tyler Durden says is bullshit and sad and horribly ill and wrong and evil, but it's wrapped up in this package.
Speaker:It's wrapped up in this gospel that you're supposed to believe.
Speaker:And even when there are inklings of truth to it, but it's being projected in the wrong direction in this terroristic, damaging direction that doesn't benefit anybody or do anything, and that's really is toxic masculinity.
Speaker:It is a spoke on a wheel that goes round and round and doesn't ever create a benefit.
Speaker:It only usually creates suffering.
Speaker:Suffering.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It, it just breaks my heart that that women are allowed to express their emotions, and it's okay for them to feel sad or cry, tears roll down their cheeks in public.
Speaker:It's okay.
Speaker:But if men do the same thing, it's looked down upon.
Speaker:And it's implied.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Nobody says that.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:There's no rule, but it's implied because then the person might get made fun of or bullied or looked down upon.
Speaker:They know that it's gonna have negative repercussions if they do show emotions in public, especially negative emotions.
Speaker:Maybe when I say negative, it's just crying, for instance, letting out some form of emotions out, then it's frowned upon.
Speaker:But if it is if they're giving flowers, if they are expressing good things, it's fine.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Of course, we genuinely want them to feel that way.
Speaker:But if they are have some form of sadness in them, they're not allowed to express it.
Speaker:And that breaks my heart because I'm thinking, how is that boy, man, teenager going to going to process it?
Speaker:Are they going to hold it within them?
Speaker:Because if they hold it, that's when it can sit in their body for years decades and manifest in ways that are not healthy.
Speaker:So just the fact that they're not allowed to express, I think, results in a lot of these aggression because it is going to come out.
Speaker:It is going how long will they hold it?
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:And they and then it comes out in a moment of weakness when they are triggered, and that is not healthy.
Speaker:So if we are allowed to if men are allowed to be sad and when they feel like and they maybe want to express it in whatever ways, healthy ways.
Speaker:And that's the thing.
Speaker:We are not taught, as a society in the world, healthy ways of expressing emotions.
Speaker:They only want the world only wants good emotions.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:But if you don't address them, if you don't go deep into the whys of negative emotions or sadness and depression, all of that, if you don't go to the root cause and address at the root cause, we're not going to actually cure the problem.
Speaker:You might suppress it for the time being, but not actually make them go away permanently.
Speaker:Not you we will not be able to transmute that energy from negative to positive.
Speaker:That has to happen from within when the individual this is irrespective of whether a woman or a man, when they understand, when they go deep and they understand why they're feeling that way and actually go really deep and address every part of it, and then learn to forgive themselves and others and the world that they are angry about.
Speaker:And then release it.
Speaker:Release.
Speaker:Learn to genuinely release it, not suppress.
Speaker:There's a difference.
Speaker:Then they'll be able to transmute that that feeling of abandon abandonment, self worth, whatever the issue may be, and then convert that into love.
Speaker:Love for themselves and love for the world.
Speaker:There's, you know, there's a lot of dismantling that has to be done both mentally and how you kind of, like, interface with the world, but also how you view the things in media that influence that.
Speaker:You know, we there's a lot of men who feel and I think that one of the tenets of toxic masculinity is feeling like you're every generation is the lost generation that needs something to make them a man, quote, unquote.
Speaker:And a lot of that's perpetuated, of course, by media.
Speaker:And a lot of media, I love.
Speaker:I'm not denouncing it, but, you know, you see a lot of depictions of something that is very, like, one dimensional, or if it is multidimensional, there is a certain group that tends to ignore the multidimensional aspects of it.
Speaker:I'm thought I'm thinking of, like, a modern day action hero like John Wick who those events in the movie is someone who's in a grieving process for his dead wife and is bonding with a puppy that is then taken away from him.
Speaker:That and clearly has, like, a love for dogs.
Speaker:And there is clearly, like, emotional resonance there, and some people choose to see it, and some people choose not to.
Speaker:I'm also thought of kind of book fan.
Speaker:I think of the character of Wolverine who you see like, you'll see a lot of people who are what you would call traditionally toxic masculine, who might be, like, wearing a Wolverine shirt or talking about how cool he is and all this other stuff and would maybe see him pop up in something new and see him have being, like, a sensitive side or something go you know, they'll call it woke or, you know, some other dumb derogatory.
Speaker:And completely having missed the you know, that's something that's been in the character since the beginning, this very soulful, almost poetic counterpoint to the to the gruff masculine exterior because he's not this purely masculine character.
Speaker:He's showing that masculinity is something that is all encompassing that has multiple facets, Same thing with femininity, and that is even if you choose to be in one of those spectrums, you might not feel particularly at home with masculine, quote, unquote masculine traits or, quote, unquote, feminine traits, and a lot of them are kind of made up of society in general.
Speaker:They're the colors of pink is for girls and blue is for boys is one of my favorite, like, showing the strings of how ridiculous a lot of this stuff is because that was it used to be the exact opposite, which was pink was a masculine color, and blue was a feminine color.
Speaker:And like what happened with wigs and, like, what happened with high heels and makeup, women began to adopt these things, would adopt the pink color, and in a way to break gender, what was the gender norms that were thrust upon them by a patriarchal society and would try to skew them and bend them.
Speaker:And the response, of course, from men was to then abandon those things completely, and then the color switched.
Speaker:Pink was freaking out for girls, and blue was now for boys.
Speaker:And men stopped wearing high heels even though they were created for men.
Speaker:Makeup was traditionally a thing men wore, and, really, the color switching didn't even happen till, like, the early aughts.
Speaker:It's that recent in history, but and it but it's that shows the very arbitrary way these things form and the very arbitrary way what is deemed masculine forms and how it can be informed by books and film and propaganda.
Speaker:You know, you see war propaganda created a lot of energy for toxic masculinity, and you see a lot of, you know, patriot movements creating even more damaging kind of add ins to toxic masculinity.
Speaker:And they all kind of grow on top of each other.
Speaker:And what is seen as masculine 5 years ago is now seen as, quote, unquote, pansy by the ultra masculine that exists today.
Speaker:And to speak of my own experience, I've always struggled with-- I'm not in any way traditionally masculine, and not even, like I don't mean in the toxic way.
Speaker:I just mean in, like, most ways.
Speaker:I've just I don't even really get along with that many men, to be honest with you, but I found myself always feeling like I needed to fit in more with that side of things, and not really quite knowing how to do it.
Speaker:And it was a lot of the stereotypical stuff, like I don't drink or do drugs or anything, and that made me kind of an outsider.
Speaker:I've talked about on the show my battle with an eating disorder, and a lot of that eating disorder and I think a lot of eating disorders for men in general, which is a way higher percentage than people think, stems from masculinity.
Speaker:That's where you get, like, bigorexia and things like that, and I don't wanna continue the stereotype that men with eating disorders are all about muscles because that's actually not true, but that is a harmful stereotype.
Speaker:But my need to control what I was eating and try to get in better shape and all that was a lot of because of toxic masculine principles.
Speaker:It was trying to live up so that way I felt less like an outsider.
Speaker:So that way I felt more, at least in my brain, more traditionally masculine, quote, unquote.
Speaker:And, I mean, that's how far it took me.
Speaker:It took me to developing an eating disorder and, you know, nearly dying and all for all for those cultural concepts of being burly and muscular, but also in impeccable shape and, you know, being stoic.
Speaker:You know, stoicism is such a classic tenet of masculinity.
Speaker:And there's and there's good stoic traits that I think anybody could adapt and be part of.
Speaker:Stoicism is a philosophy like any other.
Speaker:I don't wanna, like, denounce it or anything, but there's not but it's not a philosophical stoicism.
Speaker:It's just being stoic for toughness sake, for any signs of weakness.
Speaker:Any signs of falter is seen as anti man.
Speaker:And I think back to previous generations where you would see depictions or you'd hear stories about, you know, fathers who'd come home and not really have anything to do with the family because that wasn't their function, and they didn't and almost not even in a way to be harmful.
Speaker:That was just what they that was the only way of doing things they knew.
Speaker:And it's crazy to me to think that in our recent history, that was so normalized, just working and then being domineering at home, meaning, like, things needed to be done for them.
Speaker:You know, it's the king of the castle sort of thing, which I hate with a passion, unbridled passion.
Speaker:I hate the whole man is the king of his castle thing.
Speaker:I've really just rejected what is deemed as traditional masculinity a lot because I saw a lot of toxicity.
Speaker:And other I will say there was a couple manly things that I, you know, I am capable of and, you know, are part of my personality because I am I'm identify as a man.
Speaker:And then they're not because of societal pressures.
Speaker:They're just part of me.
Speaker:And but there are also things that people could do if they didn't identify as a man, and I think that's the key.
Speaker:It's just like masculinity, femininity.
Speaker:They're all just a collection of traits.
Speaker:And when we go back to the man box, and they're taking a bunch of traits out of thin air and then shoving them all in a box and telling you to follow what's in there.
Speaker:And it is rigid and doesn't give much leeway to anything else, and that's why men have a higher suicide rate, quite frankly.
Speaker:Suicide rates, health problems in general, quite frankly.
Speaker:I mean, all of that's internalized and comes out in different ways, as I said.
Speaker:And the going back to the rejection of intellectualism as part of masculinity, it was something that, like, I could never wrap my head around because I liked intellectualism.
Speaker:And I and it wasn't even something, like, of all the things I'm nerdy about, I wouldn't say I'm, like, nerdy in an intellectual sort of way.
Speaker:I just dig on that and dig those kind of conversations and stuff.
Speaker:And, you know, I for that reason, I did not fit in to traditional ways of speaking, you know, even with some of my own family members.
Speaker:I didn't I didn't fit in no fault of their own, just like I wasn't there.
Speaker:And it made me feel different, or it made me feel like I should stop thinking in that way.
Speaker:And we already have, like, a war on intellectualism that goes back decades at this point.
Speaker:I know college boys use a derogatory term, which always drives me nuts.
Speaker:But that lack of toxic masculinity both makes you believe you're a critical thinker, but also denounces any critical thinking.
Speaker:It's all mirage.
Speaker:So much of it is a mirage, and it's a cycle once again of abuse that if you find yourself in it, you have to try to break through the wall.
Speaker:You have to go, okay.
Speaker:What's why am I adhering to any of these tenets, any of these concepts?
Speaker:I think we've as brad as it is out there sometimes with in regards to that, I think just the fact we're calling attention to it now is showing there is a break in the chain that will continue.
Speaker:Kudos to you to have rejected that box, Mike, and going inwards and figuring out what works for you and honoring yourself and how that has contributed a lot to your mental health.
Speaker:When we stop looking at rules, and this is perfect for neurodivergent individuals, right, but because they don't like rules, the societal rules, but they might not know how to deal with them, how to process them because we're not guided.
Speaker:The world is not built that way because the world has all these rules and functionalities to rid this.
Speaker:It's so rigid that we, as neurodivergent individuals, whether male or female, don't know that the gift to process all these motions are is within us.
Speaker:So it's so we, the world, all of us, whether neurodivergent or neurotypical should focus inwards.
Speaker:And so kudos to you to have rejected that box and not following any rules that the society has put towards men.
Speaker:But I was looking at some of the traits of neurodivergent individuals and why they might experience these aspects a lot more.
Speaker:And one of it one of that is heightened sensory sensitivity.
Speaker:I know I can talk about these things because I am like that.
Speaker:I, myself, I can feel emotions a 100 times more than people around me.
Speaker:I've been made this way.
Speaker:I didn't choose it.
Speaker:I have been made this way.
Speaker:And earlier in my younger years, I would get angry a lot.
Speaker:I would get sad.
Speaker:I didn't know how to process my emotions because nobody taught me how to do it.
Speaker:I had to figure it out myself.
Speaker:But I'm I know I'm taking this a little bit towards me, but I I'm right here, I'm treating men and women as not separate.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:So what I experience, I'm expecting other men to have also experienced this because it is a neurodivergent character that that because we have thinner walls, it's gonna penetrate a lot more.
Speaker:So what someone else says, we might feel it a 100 times more, a 1000 times more just because the way we are made made of.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:But so when it comes to a male neurodivergent individual, I can imagine how much more that male toxicity might come into the picture just because the way they're made.
Speaker:So over the years, I have learned how to create boundaries for myself either with individuals or with groups or certain environments to honor my sensitivity.
Speaker:And not breaking bridges, but choosing where to show up and how to show up in the world and still honoring that beautiful, vulnerable, sensitive side that's within me.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:And if we can all do that whether male or female, it would be such a beautiful place because when we do that and then just learn how to convert this negative energy into positive within ourselves and show up in the world, it'll, and just exhibit love in a way that we know.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Because every individual is so different.
Speaker:They made their composition is so different.
Speaker:The way they express empathy is so different.
Speaker:And so if we all allow ourselves to be us and the others to be them, it would be an amazing place to be in the planet as a whole.
Speaker:And also emotional regulation, I was, looking into that.
Speaker:And, yeah, I can attest to everything about emotional dysregulation, but we can overcome that and learn to regulate and express our emotions, not suppress them, but learn to express them in beautiful ways.
Speaker:It's a learned skill.
Speaker:And, of course, everything is a learned skill.
Speaker:But when you go to school, they teach you math and science and socials and geography and English and things like that.
Speaker:But nobody I don't know if things have changed in schools, but that's nobody talks about emotional regulation.
Speaker:They just don't I mean, I don't wanna say nobody does, but it's viewed in a negative way.
Speaker:And you don't wanna throw a tantrum, but then nobody I don't know if the child is understood and they're made to go inwards and think about those things.
Speaker:I don't think the world is there yet, but I wish this would become a norm one day.
Speaker:Talking about emotions, it should be there should be classes for that.
Speaker:It should be communication classes.
Speaker:What about communication?
Speaker:Because we all have different ways of communicating, and it's okay to be different.
Speaker:And I know a lot of neurodivergent people have their communication skills are different, and it's okay.
Speaker:It's really okay.
Speaker:But we are labeling them, for instance, stoic.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Why am I even noticing that?
Speaker:Why are we even talking about it?
Speaker:Because we give importance to how they show up, how what's exhibited outside, and we're talking a lot about it.
Speaker:But instead, if we if we start focusing on how they are showing up in in the work they do and not focus on the expression of it, it would be so much better.
Speaker:I I've said this for a long time, which is philosophy classes should be, like, started in elementary school and not, like, college.
Speaker:You know, just I think, like, the ultimate wrap up of everything we've said today is if you start young, and this is about the way to one of the best ways to battle toxic masculinity, at least one of the top ways to start, like, put the foundation in, is it is not just about changing media and changing the culture, but starting from a young age teach them that thinking deeply about the world and thinking deeply about themselves and who they are is normal, is okay, is the best way to exist in the world, is thinking deeply of it.
Speaker:And the best way for you to navigate that world is to think deeply of yourself, and then you know yourself.
Speaker:And once you know yourself, you don't need to put yourself in the man box as it were.
Speaker:So on that note, thank you all for joining us in this episode of Spark Launch.
Speaker:As always, you can find us on sparklaunchpodcast.com.
Speaker:For ADHD coaching, you can go to sparklaunch.org.
Speaker:Instagram is @the_ spark launch.
Speaker:I'm @followshisghost on Instagram.
Speaker:There, you can find my link to my neurodivergent support group.
Speaker:If you use that link, the 1st month is as always free, and thank you so much for listening.
Speaker:We'll see you next time.
